Nesedah RC1

[Jesse Ross]

Hey all!

Please visit:

http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/
or
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/17/
camaelon_nesedah.png

I've added a progress throbber, modified the appearance of the default
button ('OK') and changed what I would like to suggest as the default
color (Indigo): these are the only UI elements I am looking for
suggestions on. All other changes since 16 are based on majority
comment and my own aesthetics, and will be included the final version
of the Nesedah Camaelon theme as pictured here.


J.

[Nicolas Roard]

Post by Jesse Ross
Hey all!
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/
or
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/17/
camaelon_nesedah.png
I've added a progress throbber, modified the appearance of the default
button ('OK') and changed what I would like to suggest as the default
color (Indigo): these are the only UI elements I am looking for
suggestions on. All other changes since 16 are based on majority
comment and my own aesthetics, and will be included the final version
of the Nesedah Camaelon theme as pictured here.

I like the changes :-)
The scrollbars looks ok to me (ie, flat if no scrollbar, with a
gradient showing a "depression" with a scrollbar)
The progress throbber looks ok too.
For the default button, it looks better, but I think it would be good
to not have a different color, or perhaps then another color, I don't
know.. but as it is it looks strange.
Plus, as much as possible I think it's nice to not have lots of colors
in the UI (and particularly colors that are slight variation from the
neutral gray, as it imho trick the eye..). Reason why I think the
progressbar should be gray instead of indigo tainted (but well I can
live with it ;-)
On the other hand, I don't see any justification of having *two*
different selection colors (in the browser and in the tableview)

Cheers,

[Jason Clouse]

Post by Nicolas Roard
For the default button, it looks better, but I think it would be good
to not
have a different color, or perhaps then another color, I don't
know.. but as
it is it looks strange.

I'd still like to see what a regular button with a backlit glow would
look like. I wish I had the GIMP skills to do it.

[Jesse Ross]

Post by Nicolas Roard
For the default button, it looks better, but I think it would be good
to not have a different color, or perhaps then another color, I don't
know.. but as it is it looks strange.

What is strange about it? If it's the color, what about the color? Is
it too gray? Is it too low contrast? Too hight contrast? Or do you have
a problem with the highlight/shadow styling?

Post by Nicolas Roard
Plus, as much as possible I think it's nice to not have lots of colors
in the UI (and particularly colors that are slight variation from the
neutral gray, as it imho trick the eye..). Reason why I think the
progressbar should be gray instead of indigo tainted (but well I can
live with it ;-)
On the other hand, I don't see any justification of having *two*
different selection colors (in the browser and in the tableview)

The two different selection colors are because the table is the focused
control, and the browser is unfocused (like is OS X where the focused
element uses a blue selection color, and the unfocused element uses
gray).


J.

[M. Uli Kusterer]

Post by Jesse Ross

Post by Nicolas Roard
For the default button, it looks better, but I think it would be
good to not have a different color, or perhaps then another color,
I don't know.. but as it is it looks strange.

What is strange about it? If it's the color, what about the color?
Is it too gray? Is it too low contrast? Too hight contrast? Or do
you have a problem with the highlight/shadow styling?

I think it's too glossy. It looks like Aqua, not like Nesedah.

[Karsten Schneider]

Post by Nicolas Roard
I like the changes :-)

totally agreed. :-)

Post by Nicolas Roard
The scrollbars looks ok to me (ie, flat if no scrollbar, with a
gradient showing a "depression" with a scrollbar)

Like it, too. But I wonder, if it is possible, to make the dot more visible?
I, personally have the feeling I still sense it more then I could see it?

Post by Nicolas Roard
For the default button, it looks better, but I think it would be good
to not have a different color, or perhaps then another color, I don't
know.. but as it is it looks strange.

I like the colour; also I think the "Graphite" theme is a good choice if lesser
colour is wanted.

Post by Nicolas Roard
On the other hand, I don't see any justification of having *two*
different selection colors (in the browser and in the tableview)

I had the impression that the tableview is focussed unless the browserview is
unfocussed. Am I right?
Anyway I think the default button, progress bar and the selected
table/browserview should have the same colour.

regards,

Karsten

[Stefan Urbanek]

Post by Nicolas Roard

Post by Jesse Ross
Hey all!
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/
or
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/17/
camaelon_nesedah.png
I've added a progress throbber, modified the appearance of the default
button ('OK') and changed what I would like to suggest as the default
color (Indigo): these are the only UI elements I am looking for
suggestions on. All other changes since 16 are based on majority
comment and my own aesthetics, and will be included the final version
of the Nesedah Camaelon theme as pictured here.

I like the changes :-)
The scrollbars looks ok to me (ie, flat if no scrollbar, with a
gradient showing a "depression" with a scrollbar)
The progress throbber looks ok too.
For the default button, it looks better, but I think it would be good
to not have a different color, or perhaps then another color, I don't
know.. but as it is it looks strange.
Plus, as much as possible I think it's nice to not have lots of colors
in the UI (and particularly colors that are slight variation from the
neutral gray, as it imho trick the eye..). Reason why I think the
progressbar should be gray instead of indigo tainted (but well I can
live with it ;-)
On the other hand, I don't see any justification of having *two*
different selection colors (in the browser and in the tableview)

Those colors just attracts a bit of attention to UI elements that are
most likely to be used. Progress bar is in the interest of user, so
being colored is not bad. On the other hand, you are right, that
selection colors shold be same in all views - table view, browser, text
view, text field,...

About the colors ... I like them, but this can be because i am in a mood
that i like them. Perhaps next week I will not like them ;o) What I am
trying to say is, that the theme has decent neutral look with few
colorised parts. Would it be possible to have a theme with
user-changeable hue of the colored parts? :o)

Stefan

[Jesse Ross]

Post by Stefan Urbanek
Those colors just attracts a bit of attention to UI elements that are
most likely to be used. Progress bar is in the interest of user, so
being colored is not bad. On the other hand, you are right, that
selection colors shold be same in all views - table view, browser, text
view, text field,...

Yep -- the lighter color in the browser is showing what an unfocused
selection looks like, and the darker one in the table is a focused
selection.

Post by Stefan Urbanek
About the colors ... I like them, but this can be because i am in a mood
that i like them. Perhaps next week I will not like them ;o) What I am
trying to say is, that the theme has decent neutral look with few
colorised parts. Would it be possible to have a theme with
user-changeable hue of the colored parts? :o)

That's the goal, if Nicolas and I can figure out a way to implement it.


J.

[Narcoleptic Electron]

Post by Jesse Ross
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/
or
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/17/
camaelon_nesedah.png

I'll give you all my comments, which you may ignore if you wish. I
like everything except:

1. The active selection colour (i.e. in the table view) seems a little
too purple compared to everything else. The darkness of it is good.

2. The disabled scroller (no surprise). I thought concept 16 nailed
it. This version is far less usable for a number of reasons:
- It doesn't follow the rules for disabled elements, indicating to the
user that it is something other than a disabled scroller.
- It is too distracting, especially considering that it is a
non-interactive element. Consider the fact that the disabled scroller
is just as dark as the progress bar.

3. The selected check box doesn't look clickable. You've got a mixed
metaphor between selected and non-selected: you either have to pick
the "button" or the "text box" idea. I liked concept 16 here (with
perhaps some tweaks to improve contrast).

I like everything else. The contrast seems improved, as is the use of
colour in general.

[Jesse Ross]

Post by Nicolas Roard
For the default button, it looks better, but I think it would be good
to not have a different color, or perhaps then another color, I don't
know.. but as it is it looks strange.
1. The active selection colour (i.e. in the table view) seems a little
too purple compared to everything else. The darkness of it is good.

I'm working on coordinating all the colors right now. The next version
will be more unified.

Post by Nicolas Roard
2. The disabled scroller (no surprise). I thought concept 16 nailed
- It doesn't follow the rules for disabled elements, indicating to the
user that it is something other than a disabled scroller.
- It is too distracting, especially considering that it is a
non-interactive element. Consider the fact that the disabled scroller
is just as dark as the progress bar.

While I admit 16 is much more usable, the majority of the emails I
received stated to go with the gray background. From an aesthetic
standpoint, it's my preference as well. Perhaps it would be a better
indicator of this being a disabled scroll bar to add the disabled
scroll buttons as used in 16. Ideas?

Post by Nicolas Roard
3. The selected check box doesn't look clickable. You've got a mixed
metaphor between selected and non-selected: you either have to pick
the "button" or the "text box" idea. I liked concept 16 here (with
perhaps some tweaks to improve contrast).

Yeah -- I saw the gradient on the check box while I was working, and
thought it was a mistake, so I got rid of it -- my bad. I've spent too
many days away from this apparently :) That will be added back in.
Also, I think I have a solution for the next version that achieves a
good balance between contrast and keeping the buttons in line with the
table headers.

Post by Nicolas Roard
I'd still like to see what a regular button with a backlit glow would
look like. I wish I had the GIMP skills to do it.

The next thing you'll all see is a "Default Button Selection" file
where I've compiled all the default button options up to this point, as
well as options like the above and some others. I'm going to try to
wrap this up in the next few hours, but it might not be over until
tomorrow -- we'll see how distracted I get by other stuff :)


Thanks for all you help and feedback, everyone!


J.

[Narcoleptic Electron]

Post by Jesse Ross

Post by Narcoleptic Electron
2. The disabled scroller (no surprise). I thought concept 16 nailed
- It doesn't follow the rules for disabled elements, indicating to the
user that it is something other than a disabled scroller.
- It is too distracting, especially considering that it is a
non-interactive element. Consider the fact that the disabled scroller
is just as dark as the progress bar.

While I admit 16 is much more usable, the majority of the emails I
received stated to go with the gray background. From an aesthetic
standpoint, it's my preference as well. Perhaps it would be a better
indicator of this being a disabled scroll bar to add the disabled
scroll buttons as used in 16. Ideas?

I just did an informal usability test with my
mostly-computer-illiterate wife. This is what I found out:
- She didn't realize that the disabled arrow buttons in 16 were
disabled. They don't look "disabled" enough. She wanted to click
them.
- It is easy to confuse the greyed arrows with drag notches.

So the scroller in 16 isn't as hot as I thought. However, the problem
is more general: it is really about how disabled controls are shown.

As a possible solution, what about making all disabled controls the
disabled scroller colour (the dark grey track colour)? This would be
in addition to losing the gradient and drag notches. Then adopting
the disabled scroller from 16 would result in something that looked
*almost* like the one from RC1, quelling most aesthetics objections,
while retaining all the usability merits (and none of the problems) of
16.

Thoughts?

[Jesse Ross]

Post by Narcoleptic Electron
As a possible solution, what about making all disabled controls the
disabled scroller colour (the dark grey track colour)? This would be
in addition to losing the gradient and drag notches. Then adopting
the disabled scroller from 16 would result in something that looked
*almost* like the one from RC1, quelling most aesthetics objections,
while retaining all the usability merits (and none of the problems) of
16.

Like this?

http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/19/
camaelon_nesedah.png


J.

[M. Uli Kusterer]

Post by Jesse Ross
Like this?
Loading Image...

I'm not too hot about the inactive scrollers being this dark. They
look too heavy. IMHO the general look of unavailable controls should
be like they're behind a veil of fog. That way they'll look pale,
distant and less important.

Also, the border around the progress bar needs to be stronger. Right
now the purple of the bar is darker than the border around it, and it
looks like it's floating above its track...

Love the rest, though. Is that a slight gradient on the black window
title? Great!

[Narcoleptic Electron]

Post by M. Uli Kusterer

Post by Jesse Ross
Like this?
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/19/camaelon_nesedah.png

I'm not too hot about the inactive scrollers being this dark. They
look too heavy. IMHO the general look of unavailable controls should
be like they're behind a veil of fog. That way they'll look pale,
distant and less important.

I think that these disabled scrollbars are the best yet. I agree with
Uli, though, that disabled items could stand to be lightened a bit
(but don't touch the scroll track for the activated scroller... it's
great).

Post by M. Uli Kusterer
Also, the border around the progress bar needs to be stronger. Right
now the purple of the bar is darker than the border around it, and it
looks like it's floating above its track...

I agree.

Post by M. Uli Kusterer
Love the rest, though. Is that a slight gradient on the black window
title? Great!

I agree, and also dig the title bar gradient.

[Alex Perez]

Post by Narcoleptic Electron

Post by Jesse Ross
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/
or
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/17/
camaelon_nesedah.png

I'll give you all my comments, which you may ignore if you wish. I
1. The active selection colour (i.e. in the table view) seems a little
too purple compared to everything else. The darkness of it is good.

yes, too purple indeed.

[Quentin Mathé]

Post by Jesse Ross
Hey all!
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/
or
http://www.jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/17/
camaelon_nesedah.png
I've added a progress throbber, modified the appearance of the default
button ('OK') and changed what I would like to suggest as the default
color (Indigo): these are the only UI elements I am looking for
suggestions on. All other changes since 16 are based on majority
comment and my own aesthetics, and will be included the final version
of the Nesedah Camaelon theme as pictured here.

I like this lavender tone, it is neutral but with strong personality.
The progress throbber looks cool.
I appreciate the fact the notches are emphasized a bit more now,
looking less blurry.
Very good job Jesse.

Quentin.

--
Quentin Mathé
***@club-internet.fr